Welcome to our first formal fishbowl discussion of second semester! This discussion will cover topics in Fahrenheit 451 up through page 28.
Outer circle: Remember that you're aiming to make about five quality comments; be thorough in your responses, and bring in textual passsages when you can. Enjoy!
Outer circle: Remember that you're aiming to make about five quality comments; be thorough in your responses, and bring in textual passsages when you can. Enjoy!
I'm kind of shocked that this was a bestseller in the 1950's because if this was sold when it was wouldn't Ray Bradbury be considered a communist?
ReplyDeleteI don't think he would be considered a communist because people are smart enough to realize that this book is fiction. I think the society in the 1950's may have thought of it as an outrage. Outrages usually sell well.
ReplyDeleteWhy does the Mechanical Hound seem to hate Montag even though Beatty said that it can't hate?
ReplyDeleteMatt- He was speaking out against communism, the girl that Montag talks to asks him if he is happy and he finds hes not.
ReplyDeleteThe mechanical hound on P. 26 is a very dangerous killing machine. Why is Montag trying to touch this machine. Also, what does the mechanical hound do?
ReplyDeleteThe machine is used to suck all the stuff out of you then replace it with new blood, its used to prevent someone from dying from something like overdose because the medical guy even says "We get a lot of cases nowadays."
ReplyDeleteI don't know Matt, I think the 50's people saw the true purpose of Ray' book.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mason, Bradbury is telling you what communism will turn the world into, he is not agreeing with it.
ReplyDeleteMatt, i don't think he would have been considered a communist because he was fighting a socialist society which burned books just to make everyone feel equal and that would have been thought of as a very pro-american book.
ReplyDeleteJustin-
ReplyDeleteMaybe the dog inst just a dog its more of a symbol of someone out there thinks Montag may have something to hide.
I think Montag is a secret agent and the entire book is a conspiracy.
ReplyDeleteJacob-
ReplyDeleteI think the hound is used when they suspect someone of having books and they want to find out and they send the hound in to find out.
Matt, you make a good point because it kind of seems like he has the kind of thought of a perfect society like other tyrants, but people are smart enough to know that this is a fiction book.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMason- That is not what I meant. I mean that this is a book that speaks of a sort of rebellion and has people the same way as their neighbors. In a society of the 1950's, this would be considered to be a book that should be black listed. I'm not saying it should be I'm saying it could have been if certain people got involved.
ReplyDeleteJacob, according to the captain the hound knows who is safe to be in the firehouse and to tell their difference in the acid levels of the person and the hound snarled at him and almost bit him.
ReplyDeleteCan anybody make sense of the top paragraph on page 18?
ReplyDeleteHow long can they burn books, this sounds like its been going on for a couple years. How long does it take to burn all the books? i don't think it takes that long. does it?
ReplyDeleteP.S. I just think that the thoughts of the book would have been accepted, but it would be dangerous because of the very print. If people like McCarthy read this book. Ray Bradbury would have been hunted down like a dog.
ReplyDeleteAnthony-
ReplyDeleteIf you think of how many copies of each book there are in the world, it could take 15 years to burn just a portion of the books in Colorado.
Garrett-
ReplyDeleteThat's what I was thinking, but it seems as if it is a simple machine, with no emotions but it makes a pass at Montag.This symbolizes the downfall of their society (as in a start of a revolution)through the failure of their own technology, because their technology is either going haywire or there are people behind the scenes that want to kill Guy.
Justin
ReplyDeleteI think what the paragraph is showing Montag's mind when he see all theses events happening in short notice.
I think the hound can tell Montag is hiding something because its almost like the hound knows he is different than everyone else when he snarled at him and tries to bite him.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you guys think that at Clarisse McClellan's house always has lights on and they are always talking and laughing?
ReplyDeleteJustin, I don't think that paragraph really means anything I think it's just the jumbled thoughts of Montag. He is lying there in bed listening to the rain and trying to make sense of what happened to that day but he is overwhelming himself. The constant sound of the rain hitting the earth represents the never ending barrage of miscellaneous thoughts that are bothering him while he lays there.
ReplyDeleteDo you think the machines have taken over in a secretive kind of way?
ReplyDeleteAnthony-
ReplyDeleteWell to burn the books you have to find them all and it hasn't been a couple of years if Montag has said that he has always burned books and going back to finding the book, you would have to go look in every ventilation system and in every crack in a house to find them all because some people want to keep their books because to them it would show a sign of deeper intelligence kind of like in the other story of Harrison Bergeron.
Justin- I think that is what is swirling around in Montags mind. Just in the past hour he learned that he was not happy by meeting that girl, and his wife tried to kill herself. When he is listening to Claireces family he sees that they are happy but they arent the same as everyone else. I suspect that they read books. Because of this they are different.
ReplyDeleteMatt-
ReplyDeleteThe machines havent really taken over but the people have become so absorbed by it that they dont pay attention to their society to a point where they dont notice the fleet of bombers flying over them everyday.
Matt-
ReplyDeleteIt does seem as if the machines took over, but looking at clarices family it is like they are oblivious to the whole thing. Why do you think this is?
I agree with Tanner that Montag is changing to the point where he is noticing what is happening around him. It happened when he was talking to the girl and the wife tried to kill herself.
ReplyDeleteCan the hound sense guilt? Is it a technological defect? Or is someone trying to kill Montag?
ReplyDeleteAnthony-
ReplyDeleteI think the lights are on because even though society says differently, that family is doing the right thing. They are socializing and laughing and their lights are on. Montag's house is portrayed as really dark and depressing because him and his wife rarely talk, she just sits in the parlor.
-Anthony,
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of books out there. who know how long it would take to burn them all. Montag only burns what he can find. People might be hiding books everywhere. behind shelves, under the sink, or on top of cabinets. If the books are hidden well enough in a fireproof house, then they could last forever and the firemen would never know.
Matt-
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the machines have taken over because the only machines that i can remember are; the hound and the cleaner snake machine. otherwise the machines are in a lesser use to the story and could be used later in the story but they are not in control.
Looking at the society of 451 it almost seems like people just don't want to look out side their own bubble I don't know if its just an ignorant attitude or if its subconsciously just blocking out everything else it just seems weird that nobody looks out side their normal daily life.
ReplyDeleteJacob- I think that hound knows he is hiding something behind the grill in his house, so yea it can sense guilt.
ReplyDeleteMason-
ReplyDeleteI agree, Clarice is obviously very smart and independent when everyone else is like a robot and i agree that the family probably has a large supply of books.
Connor- I think it is because they are aware. They know that the machines are discretely the masters, but they know how to fight it. Ignore it.
ReplyDeleteJacob-
ReplyDeleteMontag hasn't conformed as much as regular society. He even feels bad that the Hound can't feel anything but hate. So I think that somebody has noticed this and now suspects him of going against society and reading books.
Matt- I disagree i think that the machines are not the masters. They said they would have someone fix the Hound. If we can still turn them off and fix them how can they be the masters
ReplyDeleteJacob, I think the hound is trying to get to him on a psychological level. It hasn't necessarily hurt him yet but its starting to make him quite paranoid and anxious. Maybe the dog is much smarter than we know and like Mason said, maybe it knows that he is hiding something.
ReplyDelete-Mason,
ReplyDeleteClarice is smart. she knows a lot about things. she probably has a lot of books
Cory- Well in every society there is a bubble of a kind and that there response is subconsciously because it's not their problem in their opinion, and that reminds me of a quote in a movie called "Hotel Rwanda":The people will see this images and stop, look displeased and then they will keep on eating their dinners. Which means that the feel bad but it's not there problem.
ReplyDeleteJustin- do you think that means that they have been being monitored all the time? the book hasn't talked about security cameras at all, but it could definitely be possible that they are.
ReplyDeleteCory-
ReplyDeletePeople in this society are too absorbed in themselves to care about anything outside their bubble. They can now put themselves into the TV shows with scripts and they don't even care if they hit somebody while going 90 miles an hour. They just don't care anymore.
Mason- Because we are obsessed with them. They have a quality about them that has us consumed by it.
ReplyDeleteMason, the machines can still be the "masters" even if they have to get fixed. Like I said before, even if the hound was broken and needed fixing it would probably still control Montag to an extent by making him so paranoid and scarred about it when the crew does get around to fixing it.
ReplyDeleteBrendan- do you think the hound is a way of surveillance, to analyze people, or is it just a machine with natural intentions that are making Montag nervous
ReplyDeleteJacob-
ReplyDeleteThey could have cameras on them all the time and they probably wouldn't even realize it. They are too involved in their own lives to recognize something as small as a camera.
What does everyone think about that Machines have become our masters today?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Carlos because people may know about things but its not their problem. As Cody K. said no one is stepping out. Everyone is just moving on while not noticing about the world or don't care about it.
ReplyDeleteI think Montag is begining to realize how robots and technology can't be trusted. From now on, he will question technological advances and he will always be on his toes.
ReplyDeleteIn this society where montag lives I think that the people have been hypnotised into this perfect little world. Im not saying there brain washed but they dont know and dont care whats going on in the world around their community. Going off of what garret said about the hound, the government of this community is hunting down any one who is different by using robot hounds. The government is afraid that someone will figure something out that they dont want them to know. That why they burn the books, so the information is limited to the people. Also in the book there is no mention of any newspaper or tv news to tell the people whats going on in the world. All they do is get mesmerized into the perfect world of the parlor and dont have to worry about anything else. I feel Montag is in trouble. in this perfect society where the government does not want any one to be different Montag is started to think outside the bok. This is all do to Clarrise. She has taken Montag out of his perfect world and opened his mind to other things that are happening around him. Before he was happy with what he was doing. At the beginning of the book he was fine burning books, he even mentioned burning marshmellows in the flames of the books. Things are going to go down hill for Montag because he wants to be different in a place where being different is not excepted.
ReplyDeletei think that the government is behind burnign books because they wanted to change society. books have alot of symbolism in them they reflect someones current state of mind and in montags world knowledge of ones current state of mind before everything changed could ruin montags governmnet system
ReplyDeleteTyler s-
ReplyDeletei completely agree with you.
I think that the government is secluding the citizens from what is really going on in the world so they cant rebel. Montag and everyone in his community is aloof to what life they could really be living. I believe he has no chance to change things his fight is similar to that of david and goliath, he has to convince everyone that their current state of society is fake.
mason R.
ReplyDeletein todays society we have the ability to construct a computer that can surpass the entire populations knowledge combined. It can feel emotion, start a war and even murder. In mnontags society which is in the future, robots are overused which segregates ones mind from real life. This is because when a human knows that a robot can murder them for having a book one might feel helpless.
I agree with both ConnorM and TylerS on the fact that the government is trying to control its people by hypnotizing them into believing that books are bad. Along with the fact that the government tries to find people with the mechanical hound that aren't in line with the rest of society.
ReplyDeleteJacobs2012 I don't think the hound has any guilt or feelings at all. It seems to follow the DNA given to it and does what its designed to do... kill. If the hound did have emotions im sure the government would destroy it and create another noting the fact that no one in the society seems to show much emotion and if they do it temporarily.
ReplyDelete